Psikologi Transformatif: Bls: [psikologi_transformatif] Re: Maslow, etc (was: Jiddu Krishnamurti...)

Pak Wolker,

Uraian tentang Hofstede dsb sudah tentu memperkaya saya karena " di atas langit, masih ada langit lagi " sehingga kita mau terus belajar. Konfusius beriman pada belajar, bukan pada satu hasil pemikiran karena dengan perjalanan waktu, akan ada perbaikan terus menerus yang bermunculan.

Karena itu waktu muridnya complain mengapa dia menerima anak penjahat sebagai murid, Konfusius menjawab : apakah anda mempunyai cara yang lebih baik dari "belajar" untuk merubah orang jahat menjadi baik ?.

Dalam manajemen Jepang, kualitas diberi nasib harus terus menerus diubah spy bertambah baik.

Di manajemen Barat, kualitas dijaga sampai datang inovasi baru dari insinyur.

Jepang bersemboyan KAIZEN, perbaikan terus menerus ; Konfusius bersemboyan belajar terus menerus.

Inilah yang disebut sebagai belajar for the sake of mengembangkan diri/self

Buku - bukunya ada 4 (empat ) yaitu : The Great Learning / The Doctrine of the Mean / Analects of Confusius/ Meng Tzu

Ini yang ditulis setelah Konfusius.

Di samping itu masih ada 5 buku yang lebih tua :

Book of Poetry, Poetic vision
Book of Rites, Social Vision
Book of Spring and Autumn Annals, Historical Vision. Having sense of history, capable to see our own past
Book of Documents, Political Vision . One is ot only artistics-, social-, historical-being, but also political-being should responsive and responsibleparticipants in the political community.
Book Of Changes I Ching, Ecological concern ( 3000 BC )

Karena itulah maka Konfusius mengaku hanya sebagai transmitter, bukan creator.

Salam,

Jusuf Sutanto

----- Pesan Asli ----
Dari: wolikertajiwa <wolikertajiwa@yahoo.com>
Kepada: psikologi_transformatif@yahoogroups.com
Terkirim: Senin, 12 November, 2007 1:49:41
Topik: [psikologi_transformatif] Re: Maslow, etc (was: Jiddu Krishnamurti...)

Pak Jusuf,
Recognition (Level IV) BUKAN puncak hirarki kebutuhan versi Maslow.
Saya terpaksa mengatakan : yang keliru, ya keliru. Untuk jelasnya,
urutan kebutuhan adalah sebagai berikut :
LEVEL I - Physiological (survival) needs
LEVEL II - Safety (security) needs
LEVEL III - Belonging (love or social) needs
LEVEL IV - Esteem (recognition or status) needs
LEVEL V - Self-Actualization needs

Soal pengertian self, antara barat dan timur tentulah ada bedanya.
Akan tetapi 'barat' dan 'timur' juga tidak lagi dipakai sebagai kata
kunci dalam penelitian budaya, paling tidak penelitian budaya oleh
dua ahli kebudayaan terkemuka : Hofstede dan Trompenaar. Yang mereka
soroti adalah dimensi-dimensinya sebagai berikut :

Hofstede: Small vs. Large Power Distance, Individualism vs.
collectivism, Masculinity vs. femininity, Uncertainty avoidance, Long
vs. short term orientation

Trompenaar : Universalism v/s Particularism, Individualism v/s
Communitarianism, Neutral v/s Emotional, Specific v/s Diffuse,
Achievement v/s Ascription.

Bisa terjadi hasil penelitian berdasarkan dimensi tersebut antara 2
Departments dalam satu perusahaan berbeda budayanya, misalnya orang-
orang Manufacturing Departments 'Collectivism' , sedangkan orang-
orang Sales-Marketing 'Individualism' .

Hasil-hasil penelitian Hofstede dan Trompenaar jauh lebih kaya
daripada yang pernah kita bahas soal Maslow 'individualis' atau
Konfusius 'altruis'.

WK

--- In psikologi_transform atif@yahoogroups .com, Jusuf Sutanto
<jusuf_sw@.. .> wrote:
>
> Pak Wolker,
> Saya senang anda mempersoalkan ini karena spt dikatakan oleh David
Baird (hal 46) :
> " Gelap tidak bisa menyingkirkan gelap , hanya terang yang dapat
melakukannya .
> Kebencian tidak bisa menyingkirkan kebencian, hanya welas asih yang
bisa melakukannya "
> Dengan silih asah - asuh - asih, kita milllis bisa menjadi upaya
pemahaman kehidupan.
> Hanya setelah itu, maka kehidupan ini baru bisa dijalani dalam
tingkatannya yang setinggi mungkin.
> ===
> Akar masalahnya bisa dilihat bukan hanya dari Timur, tapi juga
Yunani kuno sebelum Socrates ( 470-399 SM)
> Promotheus dan Heraklitus mengatakan tentang eternal becoming
(pantarei) mirip dengan fisika kuantum, sedangkan Parmenides
unchangeable being berdasarkan konsep atomnya Democritus, ada benda
terkecil yang tak bisa dipecah lagi " a-tomos ".
> Sama seperti orang bijak di Timur, perbedaan pandangan ini bermuara
dalam konsep mengenai " Self ".
> Yang satu mengatakan self dalam kondisi eternal becoming (spt juga
Fuad Hassan) dan yang lain sebagai atom, misalnya Maslow dalam
hirarkhi kebutuhan. Muaranya lalu perlu adanya penjelasan soal Self
Recoqnation atau Actualization .
> Bandingkan Hirarkhi Maslow dengan Konfusius tentang Self :
> Learning to be humanLearning for the sake of the SelfSelf is not as
isolated atomSelf is not a single , separate individualitySelf as a
being of relationshipSelf as Centre of relationship
> Self develops continuouslyEver- expanding processEver growing
network of human relatednessA truly Self realization
> Saya yakin kalau Konfusius sempat ketemu dengan pemikiran Yunani
kuno ini, akan menginclude Promotheus dan Heraklitus dalam
statementnya bahwa dia bukan creator tapi just transmittor dari
kearifan yang sudah ada jauh sebelum dia lahir.
>
> Ngomong2 kapan nih copy daratnya , pasti seru deh dan yang penting
bermanfaat bagi semua, bukan datang dgn greget mau menang-menangan
untuk membuktikan pandangan orang lain salah.
> Ingat " Thian shang, yo Thian - di atas langit, masih ada langit "
>
> Salam,
> Jusuf Sutanto
> ----- Pesan Asli ----
>
> Dari: wolikertajiwa <wolikertajiwa@ ...>
> Kepada: psikologi_transform atif@yahoogroups .com
> Terkirim: Minggu, 11 November, 2007 9:46:10
> Topik: Re: Bls: [psikologi_transfor matif] The Skeptic John Powell
Meets the Mystic Jiddu Krishnamurti
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jusuf Sutanto tentang Bill Gates, M Junus, Norman
Bourlaugh, yang
>
> menuju tahapa seperti 'Budha' : Dia memberikan semua milik,
>
> keahliannya untuk menjaga dunia, bukan seperti puncak hirarkhi
>
> A.Maslow yang mencari pengakuan recoqnation.
>
>
>
> WK :
>
> Pak Jusuf emangnya pernah 'disakiti' Maslow ya ? koq Maslow
>
> disalahin melulu sih ....
>
> Puncak hirarki kebutuhan manusia menurut Maslow adalah Self
>
> Actualization (bukan Recognition !) Coba lihat url berikut :
>
> http://www.accel- team.com/ maslow_/maslow_ nds_02.html
>
> Ya, self-actualization adalah penemuan Diri Sejati (whatever we
call
>
> it), yang salah satu cirinya adalah :
>
> "People who are self actualized have had peak experiences. Peak
>
> experiences are situations that are so intense that the person
loses
>
> all sense of self and they find themselves in the flow of the
event.
>
> These are often religious or mystical experiences. "
>
> Coba klin url : http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Self_actualizati on
>
> Dan aktualisasi diri tidak bertentangan dengan altruisme, lihat url
>
> berikut :
>
> http://setiathome. berkeley. edu/forum_ thread.php? id=42654
>
>
>
> Saya bukan saudaranya Maslow, bukan juga pencinta fanatik Maslow,
>
> cuma saya tahu sekedarnya perihal Maslow.
>
>
>
> WK
>
>
>
> --- In psikologi_transform atif@yahoogroups .com, Jusuf Sutanto
>
> <jusuf_sw@ .> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Di buku Kearifan Timur dalam Etos Kerja dan Seni Memimpin, anda
>
> akan mendapatkan bahwa Siddharta Gautama sebagai pelopor era
>
> Ikhtiar, seorang pengeran yang meninggalkan istana untuk mencari
>
> jawaban : mengapa dunia menjadi lautan penderitaan karena menjadi
>
> tua - sakit dan mati adalah penderitaan. Setelah melalui jalan
>
> intelektualism dan ascetism, belum juga mencapai pencerahan, lalu
>
> kembali hidup normal dan setelah bermeditasi akhirnya mencapai
>
> pencerahan. Ini dikatakan Jalan Tengah / Middle Road.
>
> > Buddha adalah manusia sempurna - manusia sempurna adalah Buddha.
>
> > Setelah mencapai pencerahan, lukisan mengenai Dia selalu diserta
>
> aura.
>
> >
>
> > 1000 tahun kemudian datang Bodhidharma ke Tiongkok, dan
lukisannya
>
> sama sekali tidak pakai aura.
>
> > Muridnya yang pertama adalah manusia biasa (bukan berpendidikan,
>
> aristokrat) yang saking hausnya pada pencerahan, akhirnya sampai
>
> memotong lengannya untuk menunjukkan kesungguhannya pada
>
> Bodhidharma.
>
> > Terjadilah loncatan era Ikhitiar dari semula diawali oleh darah
>
> biru, kini menjadi orang biasa.
>
> > Kesimpulannya pencerahan bisa dicapai oleh setiap orang melalui
>
> pendidikan (digambarkan sebagai kerbau dengan kepala putih) dan
>
> latihan terus menerus pada gambar berikutnya sehingga seluruh
tubuh
>
> kerbau menjadi putih dan gembalanya bisa tidur nyenyak membiarkan
si
>
> kerbau merumput seperti dilukiskan dalam 6 tahap melatih kerbau.
>
> > Orang seperti Bill Gates, Muhammad Yunus, Norman Bourlaugh sedang
>
> dalam tahap menuju ke arah ini.
>
> > Dia memberikan semua milik, keahliannya untuk menjaga dunia,
bukan
>
> seperti puncak hirarkhi A.Maslow yang mencari pengakuan recoqnation.
>
> >
>
> > ----- Pesan Asli ----
>
> > Dari: Insan Syukur <isyukur@ >
>
> > Kepada: psikologi_transform atif@yahoogroups .com
>
> > Terkirim: Minggu, 11 November, 2007 7:19:02
>
> > Topik: [psikologi_transfor matif] The Skeptic John Powell Meets
the
>
> Mystic Jiddu Krishnamurti
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The Skeptic John Powell Meets the Mystic Jiddu
>
> Krishnamurti
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > John L. Waters
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > February 26, 2002
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > (c) Copyright 2001 by John L. Waters. All Rights
>
> >
>
> > Reserved
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Professor John Powell,
>
> >
>
> > http://www.humboldt .edu/~jlw47/ jp022502. html
>
> >
>
> > Jiddu Krishnamurti claimed to sense what he called
>
> >
>
> > "the benediction" and many others felt a mystical
>
> >
>
> > presence in Jiddu Krishnamurti. Practicing trance
>
> >
>
> > mediums report seeing an intense golden aura around
>
> >
>
> > the physical body of a spiritual master or saint.
>
> >
>
> > Many people sensed a healing presence fill the room as
>
> >
>
> > Jiddu Krishnamurti entered. This article examines
>
> >
>
> > this subject in detail.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Mystics or psychics who see a light or aura that many
>
> >
>
> > persons cannot ever see are sometimes attacked by
>
> >
>
> > skeptics who deny that any such light could possibly
>
> >
>
> > exist. How can this be? What is going on?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Consider the problem of demonstrating that a talent
>
> >
>
> > and a sense exists to those who don't have the sense
>
> >
>
> > or the talent.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The problem is demonstrating the sense or the talent
>
> >
>
> > to persons who simply don't have it.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Consider the difficulty in proving to a deaf person
>
> >
>
> > that sounds truly exist. The person who has the
>
> >
>
> > ability to hear will have trouble proving to deaf
>
> >
>
> > people that there is a talent called hearing. How can
>
> >
>
> > the proof be carried out?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Consider this. You can show a deaf person what
>
> >
>
> > vibration is by gently pressing an electric vibrator
>
> >
>
> > upon their skin. Say their hand or their chest. As
>
> >
>
> > they are feeling the vibration you can explain that
>
> >
>
> > sound is a vibration that the ears can feel something
>
> >
>
> > like your body feels the electric vibrator. The deaf
>
> >
>
> > person won't hear the buzzing of the vibrator but they
>
> >
>
> > will feel the vibration and they will see the vibrator
>
> >
>
> > moving back and forth.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Assume the deaf person is able to see and also has
>
> >
>
> > muscle sense and can feel the vibrator through their
>
> >
>
> > muscles and bones.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Now what about explaining to a blind person what light
>
> >
>
> > is? Again, we can use the vibrator. The blind person
>
> >
>
> > won't be able to see the vibrator but they will feel
>
> >
>
> > the vibration of it on their flesh and they will hear
>
> >
>
> > the buzzing of the vibrator in their ears.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The blind person's ears and muscles sense the
>
> >
>
> > vibration. Furthermore, the blind person can hear the
>
> >
>
> > vibrator buzzing and sense the vibration in his body.
>
> >
>
> > The teacher can tell the blind person, "Your eyes
>
> >
>
> > sense vibration. A nervous connection is missing,
>
> >
>
> > though, so you can't see the vibrator. Neither can
>
> >
>
> > you see the vibrations of light."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The problem of credibility enters. Why should the
>
> >
>
> > handicapped person believe the nonhandicapped teacher?
>
> >
>
> > By what process do congenitally blind people come to
>
> >
>
> > believe that light exists? By what process do
>
> >
>
> > congenitally deaf persons come to believe that sounds
>
> >
>
> > exist? Well, a little handicapped child trusts in
>
> >
>
> > what the adults say. The little child isn't such a
>
> >
>
> > doubter and skeptic.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Another question: Do all blind people believe that
>
> >
>
> > light exists?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Do all deaf people believe that sounds exist?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Consider a skeptical blind person. Why would a blind
>
> >
>
> > person be skeptical? Well, the skeptical blind man
>
> >
>
> > would trust only what he himself senses. (Before he
>
> >
>
> > could believe light exists he would need to see the
>
> >
>
> > light repeatedly. He would never trust what another
>
> >
>
> > person told him about vision and visible energies.)
>
> >
>
> > This is why a skeptic would never accept the mystical
>
> >
>
> > sense of Jiddu Krishnamurti. When Krishnamurti
>
> >
>
> > describes what he calls "the other," "the immensity,"
>
> >
>
> > and "the benediction, " skeptics refuse to believe him
>
> >
>
> > because they just can't sense what he senses. They
>
> >
>
> > have lost all the trust that a little child has.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Even so, a mystic can say to you that the mystical
>
> >
>
> > vibration is warm, bright, and soothing. It helps one
>
> >
>
> > relax and turn off the thought-engine. The mind stops
>
> >
>
> > plotting, planning, and thinking. If you are
>
> >
>
> > trusting, you can believe. If you aren't trusting,
>
> >
>
> > there are still ways of helping you to understand the
>
> >
>
> > mystical sense. Hear what Jiddu Krishnamurti himself
>
> >
>
> > has to say. This is a quote from page 82 of the book
>
> >
>
> > entitled "Krishnamurti to Himself:"
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > "Meditation is a movement without any motive, without
>
> >
>
> > words and the activity of thought. It must be
>
> >
>
> > something that is not deliberately set about. Only
>
> >
>
> > then is meditation a movement in the infinite,
>
> >
>
> > measureless to man, without a goal, without an end and
>
> >
>
> > without a beginning."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > As Krishnamurti goes into deep meditation, he senses
>
> >
>
> > "the other" and he moves his body in different ways,
>
> >
>
> > serenely, without any ulterior motive, without a plan
>
> >
>
> > or an idea in his head. A sensitive person feels the
>
> >
>
> > mystical energy emanating from Jiddu Krishnamurti and
>
> >
>
> > senses that he is holy. But most people don't have
>
> >
>
> > enough sensitivity to feel this aspect of
>
> >
>
> > Krishnamurti. They just can't sense his aura or see
>
> >
>
> > the light coming from him. These people are rather
>
> >
>
> > like deaf people or blind people, yet they don't have
>
> >
>
> > the trust most deaf or blind people have. The deaf
>
> >
>
> > people trust other people when they say sounds are
>
> >
>
> > real. The blind people trust other people when they
>
> >
>
> > say colors and light are real. But the skeptics who
>
> >
>
> > can't sense the aura of a holy person refuse to trust
>
> >
>
> > other people who do sense in this way. One really
>
> >
>
> > wonders why the skeptics are so skeptical.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > By collecting many reports of the mystical sense of
>
> >
>
> > Krishnamurti together, the open-minded person amasses
>
> >
>
> > evidence that the mystical sense is real. For
>
> >
>
> > example, in his book entitled "Cosmic Consciousness"
>
> >
>
> > Dr. Richard Maurice Bucke presents reports of or by
>
> >
>
> > forty-nine adults whom he believed attained the
>
> >
>
> > mystical state of cosmic consciousness. Furthermore,
>
> >
>
> > the modern scientist Sir Alister Hardy F.R.S. created
>
> >
>
> > a book entitled "The Spiritual Nature of Man" in which
>
> >
>
> > he presented over four hundred anecdotal reports by
>
> >
>
> > persons who had a mystical experience or an uncanny
>
> >
>
> > experience of some rather similar kind.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Despite all these anecdotal preports, a skeptic can
>
> >
>
> > say, "There is just belief on the basis of desire"
>
> >
>
> > because the pioneer psychologist Sigmund Freud said
>
> >
>
> > this and it seems to be true enough, in many cases.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > There's a problem though, for how does just belief on
>
> >
>
> > the basis of desire enable an insomniac to turn off
>
> >
>
> > his or her thinking mind and go to sleep? Belief on
>
> >
>
> > the basis of desire doesn't make a person into a
>
> >
>
> > meditator. There's more to meditation than just
>
> >
>
> > wanting to be free of the demons that keep one on
>
> >
>
> > edge, tossing and turning under the blankets and
>
> >
>
> > totally unable to go to sleep. There's a lot more to
>
> >
>
> > becoming a saint tham wishful thinking and vain
>
> >
>
> > belief.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Skeptics doubt that the empty mind of the meditator
>
> >
>
> > and the special sense of Krishnamurti and other
>
> >
>
> > mystics is a valid sense. Indeed, the skeptics call
>
> >
>
> > this perception of strange lights and other eerie
>
> >
>
> > sensations a delusion, or an hallucination. Why? On
>
> >
>
> > what basis? Well, they say that it's just not a
>
> >
>
> > normal perception. Moreover, they say it's associated
>
> >
>
> > with atypical behavior, sometimes even dangerous
>
> >
>
> > insanity. The skeptics insist that the person who
>
> >
>
> > sees lights that other people don't see is a
>
> >
>
> > psychotic. That's like deaf people giving sighted
>
> >
>
> > people a nasty name, and it suggests that the skeptics
>
> >
>
> > are jealous. Maybe they are just believing on the
>
> >
>
> > basis of their own desire. How do the skeptics prove
>
> >
>
> > this is not the case?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > 1. The skeptics have never sensed what Krishnamurti
>
> >
>
> > calls "the other" or if they sensed it once they were
>
> >
>
> > like Scrooge and they snorted "Bah. Humbug!" and they
>
> >
>
> > called it a distortion and they blamed it on a trick
>
> >
>
> > of sense or on an "underdone potato" or some kind of
>
> >
>
> > poisoning. They said it must be an illness. They
>
> >
>
> > treated it as evidence of insanity. Where is the
>
> >
>
> > skeptics' proof that they are right? Why should we,
>
> >
>
> > the naive ang gullible innocents, believe what the
>
> >
>
> > skeptics say?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > 2. Most people are skeptical of this extra sense.
>
> >
>
> > They just don't have the talent and the sense or they
>
> >
>
> > never developed it, and so they doubt that it is real.
>
> >
>
> > In fact some skeptics really get upset at the idea
>
> >
>
> > that what a mystic senses is real.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > 3. Scientists dressed in their white coats like holy
>
> >
>
> > men dressed in white robes have sanctioned ways of
>
> >
>
> > removing this sense from insane people. In fact, if
>
> >
>
> > Jiddu Krishnamurti hadn't been venerated as a holy
>
> >
>
> > man, he would have been feared as a psychotic. Maybe
>
> >
>
> > he just compensated very well for his handicap and was
>
> >
>
> > wise despite his illness? Well, let's examine each of
>
> >
>
> > these ideas.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > A. Like Ebeneezer Scrooge suggested he was seeing the
>
> >
>
> > ghost of Jacob Marley because the rich miser ate a
>
> >
>
> > piece of underdone potato, the skeptics will say that
>
> >
>
> > the mystic is just being poisoned... maybe poisoned by
>
> >
>
> > the body itself, or by physiological changes inside
>
> >
>
> > the brain. The doctors give the mystic some medicine
>
> >
>
> > that drastically alters brain activity. This
>
> >
>
> > medication is called a cure for insanity.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The assumption is that what meditators sense is bad.
>
> >
>
> > The doctors assume that it's good to always be using
>
> >
>
> > the rational retentive cognitive style (RRCS) and
>
> >
>
> > planning every move and thinking ahead. The doctors
>
> >
>
> > say that intuition is bad, or at least inferior to
>
> >
>
> > conscious calculation and cogitation The doctors
>
> >
>
> > and the skeptics would never trust their intuitions.
>
> >
>
> > They would insist on having clearly defined reasons to
>
> >
>
> > do something. Maybe it's because the doctors and the
>
> >
>
> > skeptics just never had the sense and the talent of a
>
> >
>
> > very intuitive person, or they suppressed their own
>
> >
>
> > intuition to do well in school and get ahead in the
>
> >
>
> > stiff, competive academic world.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > B. If most people are skeptical, it's because they
>
> >
>
> > don't sense this "other" and they are social. They
>
> >
>
> > focus upon thinking and talking, reading and
>
> >
>
> > listening. They don't want to withdraw for hours and
>
> >
>
> > go into deep meditation. They have the social
>
> >
>
> > instinct. They tend to believe a person is mentally
>
> >
>
> > ill if he or she spends a lot of time alone. Their
>
> >
>
> > socially conditioned bias is showing. In a different
>
> >
>
> > culture, however, meditators could be respected
>
> >
>
> > persons. Our culture just favors reasoned arguments
>
> >
>
> > and conversation.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > C. Examine the assumptions of the psychologists and
>
> >
>
> > psychiatrists. They were raised on Freud and the
>
> >
>
> > teachings of other determined skeptics. They were
>
> >
>
> > trained in the university where RRCS is the ONE WAY to
>
> >
>
> > excel...and prove yourself competent. As advisors to
>
> >
>
> > educators they sanction the partial mind-blinding of
>
> >
>
> > schoolchildren. I say. Does this remind you of
>
> >
>
> > William Blake, and his poem, "Holy Thursday?"
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Okay. The main issue here is that unlike the deaf
>
> >
>
> > children and the blind children who trust in their
>
> >
>
> > teacher and caregiver, the hard skeptics who don't
>
> >
>
> > sense the subjective light and just don't believe in
>
> >
>
> > the subjective light of Jiddu Krishnamurti and other
>
> >
>
> > mystics are determined not to trust in what Jiddu
>
> >
>
> > Krishnamurti says, and in what other mystics say.
>
> >
>
> > Like John Powell, whom in this article we shall
>
> >
>
> > consider the consummate skeptical philosopher, they,
>
> >
>
> > like John Powell, are all from the state of Missouri,
>
> >
>
> > the "show me" state. And so I am prepared to show
>
> >
>
> > John Powell and the other skeptics what Krishnamurti
>
> >
>
> > was talking about.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > If you go to my website Prophets
>
> >
>
> > and Prophecies and read my article on AUM art,
>
> >
>
> > you will see a different way of expressing what
>
> >
>
> > Krishnamurti said in his preceding quote on
>
> >
>
> > meditation. Here is part of that quote again:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > "Meditation is a movement without any motive, without
>
> >
>
> > words and the activity of thought. It must be
>
> >
>
> > something that is not deliberately set about...without
>
> >
>
> > an end and without a beginning."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Now consider this. While he is in meditation a man
>
> >
>
> > produces drawings which don't suggest any name or
>
> >
>
> > word. Furthermore, after the drawing is done you
>
> >
>
> > can't tell where the man first set the pen to paper
>
> >
>
> > and where he lifted it off the paper. The process of
>
> >
>
> > meditation so filled his body and brain that as he
>
> >
>
> > continues drawing you can see a picture of that very
>
> >
>
> > movement that Krishnamurti is talking about. The
>
> >
>
> > artist himself is demonstrating this state of activity
>
> >
>
> > for you, right before your eyes.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > As you urge the artist-meditator to argue with you and
>
> >
>
> > prove to you that he is a good debater and arguer, you
>
> >
>
> > are urging him to forsake the sense of blessedness and
>
> >
>
> > benediction he feels which comes by means of his
>
> >
>
> > special sense and his special talent, and adjust to
>
> >
>
> > your special sense and talent. You admit you worry a
>
> >
>
> > lot about philosophical issues. You want the blessed
>
> >
>
> > meditator to come down to your own level and worry
>
> >
>
> > along with you. Is this fair? If the meditator is
>
> >
>
> > going to struggle and reform his brain activity to
>
> >
>
> > suit your needs, your training, and your
>
> >
>
> > expectations, can you admit that this will take the
>
> >
>
> > man a bit of time and effort, and during that time he
>
> >
>
> > won't be able to work his brain as much in the other
>
> >
>
> > way, which Jiddu Krishnamurti was encouraged to work
>
> >
>
> > his brain? After all, Krishnamurti was revered as a
>
> >
>
> > holy man. But you don't want to believe there is any
>
> >
>
> > such thing as a holy man. Is this correct or is there
>
> >
>
> > something I don't yet understand about your
>
> >
>
> > skepticism? You talk about Freud and William James,
>
> >
>
> > but the blessed person sees that each one of these
>
> >
>
> > persons is like a deaf child who refuses to believe
>
> >
>
> > that sound exists. Each one of them is like a blind
>
> >
>
> > child who has no trust in the parent or educator who
>
> >
>
> > is explaining what light is and what seeing is like.
>
> >
>
> > But the vibrations from a holy person are felt as
>
> >
>
> > vibrations by the person who has the sense and the
>
> >
>
> > talent to feel these vibrations. If you don't have
>
> >
>
> > this sense and this talent, well, why must you insist
>
> >
>
> > that there is no such thing as a holy light or a
>
> >
>
> > subjective light? Could that just be a sour grapes
>
> >
>
> > attitude? How do you prove the skeptical person isn't
>
> >
>
> > just demonstrating a sour grapes attitude?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > What you want, of course, is some hard evidence, or
>
> >
>
> > some clear argument that is convincing. Jiddu
>
> >
>
> > Krishnamurti has given us a clear definition of what
>
> >
>
> > meditation IS, and the AUM artist gives you a
>
> >
>
> > demonstration of the movements about which
>
> >
>
> > Krishnamurti speaks in his quote. If you can't sense
>
> >
>
> > the holy light that comes through the AUM artist as he
>
> >
>
> > is meditating and drawing figures right in front of
>
> >
>
> > your eyes, well, that doesn't mean the holy light
>
> >
>
> > doesn't exist. It just suggests that you never
>
> >
>
> > developed the sense and the talent in yourself.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Now if you are weak in intuition, you don't know what
>
> >
>
> > to believe. You don't sense the holy light, and you
>
> >
>
> > know that young children trust in their parents and
>
> >
>
> > their teachers, so a blind child and a deaf child will
>
> >
>
> > trust and believe that there is light and sound. So,
>
> >
>
> > too, a young child will trust the parent or the
>
> >
>
> > educator who tells them about the holy light.
>
> >
>
> > Moreover, some of the children will sense the holy
>
> >
>
> > light in certain eerie places and in certain eerie
>
> >
>
> > persons. But what does it mean to be feeling eerie?
>
> >
>
> > That's just a funny word that doesn't get used a lot
>
> >
>
> > nowadays.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > We know that a little child will believe things which
>
> >
>
> > aren't really true. Like Santa Claus doesn't really
>
> >
>
> > come down the chimney with lots of toys in a large
>
> >
>
> > sack. If one child says he or she sees an eerie light
>
> >
>
> > in a certain person, why doesn't that child see the
>
> >
>
> > same light in other persons? Moreover, if out of two
>
> >
>
> > hundred children five children see an eerie light in a
>
> >
>
> > given person but not in other persons, is that just
>
> >
>
> > chance? And if the AUM artist can take ten persons
>
> >
>
> > and give them a method for seeing lights they didn't
>
> >
>
> > see before, and they all report seeing these lights
>
> >
>
> > even though they didn't know what to expect, is that
>
> >
>
> > just due to chance? The AUM artist has done these
>
> >
>
> > things. This isn't made-up fantasy.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The idea of Freud that "We believe on the basis of
>
> >
>
> > desire rather than on the basis of argument or
>
> >
>
> > evidence," can help us understand why some skeptics
>
> >
>
> > are so adamant in their insistence that there is no
>
> >
>
> > such thing as a "holy" light or a "subjective" light
>
> >
>
> > as Dr. R.M. Bucke called it. The skeptics are failing
>
> >
>
> > to sense a part of reality, but they don't want to
>
> >
>
> > admit this. Of course there are lots of deaf people
>
> >
>
> > and there are lots of blind people. But in our
>
> >
>
> > culture, a man doesn't want to think of himself as
>
> >
>
> > handicapped or disabled. If there is an "extra" sense
>
> >
>
> > that many children don't have or they just outgrow it
>
> >
>
> > at a rather young age, if this sense isn't essential
>
> >
>
> > for being a good hunter and warrior, then natural
>
> >
>
> > selection isn't going to eliminate those who don't
>
> >
>
> > have the sense. Millennia will come and go, and some
>
> >
>
> > people will have the sense of the holy presence and
>
> >
>
> > many will not. Furthermore, one can see that the
>
> >
>
> > sense of a light that isn't physical can be a
>
> >
>
> > distraction to man who needs to focus on the physical
>
> >
>
> > reality to succeed on the hunt and in battle. So
>
> >
>
> > there is a certain amount of selection pressure
>
> >
>
> > against this talent and this sense. Even so, the
>
> >
>
> > sensitivity is still present in the human race. Some
>
> >
>
> > persons will be unusually sensitive to this
>
> >
>
> > environmental input.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > 11:05PM Saturday, February 23, 2002
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > 8:40PM Monday, February 25, 2002
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > John L. Waters
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The information on this page represents that of John Waters and
not
>
> >
>
> > necessarily that of Humboldt State University. John Waters takes
>
> full
>
> >
>
> > responsibility for the information presented.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > This page is maintained by: John Waters
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> > 
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> > 
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> > 
>
> >
>
> >
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> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________
________
>
> > Bergabunglah dengan orang-orang yang berwawasan, di di bidang
>
> Anda! Kunjungi Yahoo! Answers saat ini juga di
>
> http://id.answers. yahoo.com/
>
> >
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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> 
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>
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> 
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________
> Kunjungi halaman depan Yahoo! Indonesia yang baru!
> http://id.yahoo. com/
>